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amit@desiboy.com
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 Posted:
Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:19 am Post subject:
Article : DVD Jon hacks Media Player file encryption (Stream |
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I don't think affects DRM as far as decrypting a wmv file using a KeyID
+ Seed and playing it in VLC player... but it does affect streaming.
Thoughts ?
Amit Chandel
----------- article --------------------
DVD Jon hacks Media Player file encryption
By Gavin Clarke in San Francisco
Published Friday 2nd September 2005 06:40 GMT
Get breaking Software news straight to your desktop - click here to
find out how
Norway's best known IT export, DVD Jon, has hacked encryption coding in
Microsoft's Windows Media Player, opening up content broadcast for the
multimedia player to alternative devices on multiple platforms.
Jon Lech Johansen has reverse engineered a proprietary algorithm, which
is used to wrap Media Player NSC files and ostensibly protect them from
hackers sniffing for the media's source IP address, port or stream
format. He has also made a decoder available.
Johansen doesn't believe there is a good reason to keep the NSC files
encrypted, because once you open the file with Media Player to start
viewing the stream, the IP address and port can be revealed by running
the netstat network utility that is included with most operating
systems.
The hacker hopes his move will make content streamed to Media Player
more widely available to users of alternative players on non-Windows
platforms.
Johansen achieved notoriety when he was tried and re-tried in a
Norwegian court for creating a utility that enabled him to play DVDs on
his Linux PC. Prosecutors, acting in the interests of the beloved US
Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA), argued he had acted
illegally by distributing his DeCSS tool to others via the internet.
This, the prosecution, claimed, made it easier to pirate DVDs.
However, the court ruled in his favor, saying he had not broken the law
in bypassing DVD scrambling codes that had stopped him from using his
PC to play back DVDs.
Earlier this year Johansen developed a work around to bypass digital
rights management (DRM) technology in Apple Computer's iTunes.
His latest hack was done to make Media Player content available to the
open source VideoLAN Client (VLC) streaming media player. VLC is
available for download to 12 different operating systems and Linux
distributions and has seen more than six million downloads to Mac.
Apple is even pre-loading VLC on some Macs destined for high schools in
Florida.
Johansen told The Register he'd acted following requests for NSC
support in VLC. One developer is already hard at work integrating
Johansen's decoder into the VLC.
Johansen said: "Windows Media Player is not very good and Windows and
Mac users should not be forced to use it to view such [NSC] streams."
The NSC file contains information about the stream, such as the name
and address of the stream server. When the file is opened in Media
Player, the file is decoded and then connected to the stream server
specified.
Johansen said claims made by companies like Cisco Systems, who ship
products with NSC support, that the encoding he cracked protects the
media don't make much sense. "It's more likely that the purpose is to
prevent competing media players from supporting the NSC format," he
observed. ®
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Sebastian Gottschalk
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| Posted:
Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Article : DVD Jon hacks Media Player file encryption (St |
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amit@desiboy.com wrote:
| Quote: | I don't think affects DRM as far as decrypting a wmv file using a KeyID
+ Seed and playing it in VLC player... but it does affect streaming.
Thoughts ?
|
Read Jon's blog - there is no encryption, as there's no key. Encryption
wihtout a key is just encoding, and he simply reverse-engineered the code.
Decrypting DRM is easy, either by carefully downgrading to build 3503 and
using drmdbg/drm2wmv, or by applying some interesting modifications to
drmkaud.sys.
However, I'm not happy about tellling that "Windows Media Player is not
very good", as it's one of the best DirectShow-based players available for
Windows.
--
Dieser Schrieb stellt eine private Meinungsäußerung des Verfassers im
Sinne der gesetzlich garantierten Meinungsfreiheit dar. Wem das nicht
passt, der wende sich an das Bundesverfassungsgericht. Viel Erfolg!
Key: 0xA0E28D18 FP: 83AE 1136 1E2B 9767 8FB2 7594 4128 1A9E A0E2 8D18 |
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amit@desiboy.com
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Article : DVD Jon hacks Media Player file encryption (St |
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| Quote: | "Read Jon's blog - there is no encryption, as there's no key. Encryption
wihtout a key is just encoding, and he simply reverse-engineered the code."
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I thought so. This hack doesn't seem that big of a deal then, well in
the grand
scheme of things. As long our content remains safe, I'm sleeping well.
Amit Chandel
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Sebastian Gottschalk
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Article : DVD Jon hacks Media Player file encryption (St |
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amit@desiboy.com wrote:
| Quote: | "Read Jon's blog - there is no encryption, as there's no key. Encryption
wihtout a key is just encoding, and he simply reverse-engineered the code."
I thought so. This hack doesn't seem that big of a deal then, well in
the grand scheme of things. As long our content remains safe, I'm
sleeping well.
|
Sure, but for being able to remain safe, shouldn't it be safe in first
place?
--
Dieser Schrieb stellt eine private Meinungsäußerung des Verfassers im
Sinne der gesetzlich garantierten Meinungsfreiheit dar. Wem das nicht
passt, der wende sich an das Bundesverfassungsgericht. Viel Erfolg!
Key: 0xA0E28D18 FP: 83AE 1136 1E2B 9767 8FB2 7594 4128 1A9E A0E2 8D18 |
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Amit Chandel
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:30 am Post subject:
Re: Article : DVD Jon hacks Media Player file encryption (St |
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| Quote: | Sure, but for being able to remain safe, shouldn't it be safe in first
place?
From a *content provider* point of view, it would be ideal to have full
control over the content and how it's used. However, we can't |
expect total control forever. From the hack described above, people
will have access to the "stream location". It doesn't really
hurt Microsoft or the content providers. It's unencrypted content.
The *major players* who will incorporate MS Windows Media Technology
(say a future Toshiba DVD/WMV standalone player, or a Digital Cable
Converter which decrypts a stream for Video On Demand) will have to pay
the $$$ to MS to license the technology in any case.
Sure, VLC player can now view the stream location and play the stream,
or even save the stream to a file. But wasn't this kind of expected
anyway ? Real Networks did it. They reverse engineered Apple's
FairPlay DRM system so that Real's online music subscription service
would be playable on the iPod. I'm sure it only *helped* the iPod
sales which is the real money maker.
Viewing MS Windows Media technology on other players will likely be the
future trend anyway. Who wants to sit on the computer and watch Die
Hard 2 !
The bread and butter is the DRM. The appeal of DRM is the deterrent
factor To make it just hard enough for most consumers to go the honest
route of purchasing content. As long as the concept of KEY + SEED,
Revocation list and MS's ability to issue new Individualization
numbers to evolve the DRM alongside the hacker.. it will remain more
work than it's worth for most consumers to pirate the content and
enough of a deterrent to justify using MS technology to distribute
content.
Amit Chandel |
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Amit Chandel
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:30 am Post subject:
Re: Article : DVD Jon hacks Media Player file encryption (St |
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| Quote: | Sure, but for being able to remain safe, shouldn't it be safe in first place?
From a *content provider* point of view, it would be ideal to have full
|
control over the content and how it's used. However, we can't
expect total control forever. From the hack described above, people
will have access to the "stream location". It doesn't really
hurt Microsoft or the content providers. It's unencrypted content.
The *major players* who will incorporate MS Windows Media Technology
(say a future Toshiba DVD/WMV standalone player, or a Digital Cable
Converter which decrypts a stream for Video On Demand) will have to pay
the $$$ to MS to license the technology in any case.
Sure, VLC player can now view the stream location and play the stream,
or even save the stream to a file. But wasn't this kind of expected
anyway ? Real Networks did it. They reverse engineered Apple's
FairPlay DRM system so that Real's online music subscription service
would be playable on the iPod. I'm sure it only *helped* the iPod
sales which is the real money maker.
Viewing MS Windows Media technology on other players will likely be the
future trend anyway. Who wants to sit on the computer and watch Die
Hard 2 !
The bread and butter is the DRM. The appeal of DRM is the deterrent
factor To make it just hard enough for most consumers to go the honest
route of purchasing content. As long as the concept of KEY + SEED,
Revocation list and MS's ability to issue new Individualization
numbers to evolve the DRM alongside the hacker.. it will remain more
work than it's worth for most consumers to pirate the content and
enough of a deterrent to justify using MS technology to distribute
content.
Amit Chandel |
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Sebastian Gottschalk
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Article : DVD Jon hacks Media Player file encryption (St |
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Amit Chandel wrote:
| Quote: | The bread and butter is the DRM. The appeal of DRM is the deterrent
factor To make it just hard enough for most consumers to go the honest
route of purchasing content. As long as the concept of KEY + SEED,
Revocation list and MS's ability to issue new Individualization
numbers to evolve the DRM alongside the hacker.. it will remain more
work than it's worth for most consumers to pirate the content and
enough of a deterrent to justify using MS technology to distribute
content.
|
Are you joking? MSDRM is currently very broken and even the dumbest AOL
users know how to Google for finding those utilities. There're even some
GUI frontends for the commandline tools.
--
Dieser Schrieb stellt eine private Meinungsäußerung des Verfassers im
Sinne der gesetzlich garantierten Meinungsfreiheit dar. Wem das nicht
passt, der wende sich an das Bundesverfassungsgericht. Viel Erfolg!
Key: 0xA0E28D18 FP: 83AE 1136 1E2B 9767 8FB2 7594 4128 1A9E A0E2 8D18 |
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Amit Chandel
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:30 am Post subject:
Re: Article : DVD Jon hacks Media Player file encryption (St |
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There are ways to get around the cracks that are out there. I've
discussed this in a previous post. The main concept being, assign
KeyID's + Seeds unique to each customer. So even if it does get
cracked, they can't simply post the .key out on the net. As added
protection, make them use atleast v10.00.00.3802. It's still fairly
difficult for the average user, which goes back to my point of making
it just difficult enough for most people to go the honest way.
Amit Chandel. |
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Sebastian Gottschalk
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Article : DVD Jon hacks Media Player file encryption (St |
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Amit Chandel wrote:
| Quote: | There are ways to get around the cracks that are out there. I've
discussed this in a previous post. The main concept being, assign
KeyID's + Seeds unique to each customer. So even if it does get
cracked, they can't simply post the .key out on the net.
|
What's the big difference from simply putting the unencrypted/not-messed-up
file into a P2P share? Break once, play everywhere.
| Quote: | As added protection, make them use atleast v10.00.00.3802.
|
This can only apply to new media. And doesn't change anything that the
media can at least get digitally recorded. And the DRMed WMV still violates
the VC-1 specification and is therefore juristically problematic to no end.
| Quote: | It's still fairly
difficult for the average user, which goes back to my point of making
it just difficult enough for most people to go the honest way.
|
Tell me an average user who is too dumb for typing the name of the content
into eMule's search, after noticing that the payed content provider require
Windows, IE (and it's usage as a webbrowser, which is irresponsible), the
MSDRM trojan horse and personal harassment with limited usage abilities.
--
Dieser Schrieb stellt eine private Meinungsäußerung des Verfassers im
Sinne der gesetzlich garantierten Meinungsfreiheit dar. Wem das nicht
passt, der wende sich an das Bundesverfassungsgericht. Viel Erfolg!
Key: 0xA0E28D18 FP: 83AE 1136 1E2B 9767 8FB2 7594 4128 1A9E A0E2 8D18 |
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Sebastian Gottschalk
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Article : DVD Jon hacks Media Player file encryption (St |
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Amit Chandel wrote:
| Quote: | Yet people are still paying
their .99cents for their tunes. (Apple's 500Mth download a few months
ago is proof of this).
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Because iTunes doesn't use any harassing or standard-violating DRM
implementation. Anyway, it seems like most people burn to CD and rip as MP3
afterwards to get rid of the DRM.
| Quote: | The point is, if you create a service that is easy to use, reliable and
priced correctly ... your target audience will opt to pay for the
legitimate content. Use DRM as a deterrent, to make it just hard
enough.
|
Maybe you're getting it as wrong as the others: Paying for DRM is a waste
of money.
| Quote: | Those companies that are going overboard with security are
forgetting what their customers really want.
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So, that's what MSDRM is actually like. Broken format, Secure Audio Path
and you-don't-actually-want-to-know-what's-gonna-come-with-Vista-and-TCG.
| Quote: | Don't bet on DRM. Use it as a deterrent.
|
Or don't use it, save the money and lower the prices, save yourself from
harassment from the customers, and be free of getting faced with law-suits
(hint: DRMed WMV is no WMV, as it violates the VC-1 specification, so the
customers are not getting what you promise - which is simply fraud).
--
Dieser Schrieb stellt eine private Meinungsäußerung des Verfassers im
Sinne der gesetzlich garantierten Meinungsfreiheit dar. Wem das nicht
passt, der wende sich an das Bundesverfassungsgericht. Viel Erfolg!
Key: 0xA0E28D18 FP: 83AE 1136 1E2B 9767 8FB2 7594 4128 1A9E A0E2 8D18 |
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Amit Chandel
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Article : DVD Jon hacks Media Player file encryption (St |
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Yes, but then even Real's expensive military grade unbreakable DRM can
be bypassed with a simple s-video/spdif out cable. MP3's are also
readily available on all the P2P networks. Yet people are still paying
their .99cents for their tunes. (Apple's 500Mth download a few months
ago is proof of this).
DVD's DeCSS has been cracked many years ago, yet DVD sales are stronger
than ever.
The point is, if you create a service that is easy to use, reliable and
priced correctly ... your target audience will opt to pay for the
legitimate content. Use DRM as a deterrent, to make it just hard
enough. Those companies that are going overboard with security are
forgetting what their customers really want.
Sony and MiniDisc for example. They created so many protection schemas
into their MD file formats, that they completely missed out on a huge
market that simply wanted to record high quality audio and transfer it
to their PC so they could burn it to a CD. Even with HiMD (nextGen),
you can now move it to your computer (only once) but you can't move a
recording which is recorded via Optical In. Too many restrictions.
The technology was cracked immediately after release.
Don't bet on DRM. Use it as a deterrent.
:)
Amit Chandel |
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Amit Chandel
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:30 am Post subject:
Re: Article : DVD Jon hacks Media Player file encryption (St |
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You know what. Surprisingly, I actually agree with most of the stuff
you have to say. I can tell you, as a "consumer" I've *never* bought
any 320 kbps MP3 or WAV that has DRM on it. (I've purchased over 200
tracks as I DJ afterhours, and it's impossible to find the vinyl all
the time).
However, this whole industry is brand new. And being a content
provider during the day, it's logistically / legally impossible to
convince the vendors / studio's to allow the rights to distribute their
content without DRM. They want assurance. So to create the industry
DRM is necessary, otherwise the studio's would never agree to the
electronic format. So as wacky as DRM is, it's essential to get the
industry on board. In the end it benefits the consumer, because in a
few years, they'll be able to take a future compile of
DIVX/WMV/RM/whatever and burn it straight to DVD in one click.
Allowing people to have a bigger collection for cheaper $$$.
Amit Chandel |
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Sebastian Gottschalk
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:42 am Post subject:
Re: Article : DVD Jon hacks Media Player file encryption (St |
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Amit Chandel wrote:
| Quote: | However, this whole industry is brand new. And being a content
provider during the day, it's logistically / legally impossible to
convince the vendors / studio's to allow the rights to distribute their
content without DRM.
|
Yes, we know that they already admitted that the vendor actually do require
the providers to fraud the customers. That's why they're losing even more
market share.
| Quote: | They want assurance.
|
Oh, they want to change something about the information's inherent ability
to be copyable?
| Quote: | So to create the industry
DRM is necessary, otherwise the studio's would never agree to the
electronic format. So as wacky as DRM is, it's essential to get the
industry on board.
|
I haven't seen any DRM system that provide such a thing without trying to
harass the users by limiting their abilities. What's wrong with a simple
content purchasement system, whichs rights information are just
informational?
| Quote: | In the end it benefits the consumer, because in a
few years, they'll be able to take a future compile of
DIVX/WMV/RM/whatever and burn it straight to DVD in one click.
|
I won't benefit them, because if the company loses their master key, one
player model gets compromised and all other models get revoked, the company
ceases to exist - well, then the data are GONE. FOREVER.
Why not simply burning books? A way easier and more honest way to destroy
culture media.
| Quote: | Allowing people to have a bigger collection for cheaper $$$.
|
DRM faces license payments, for simply being applied and getting broken.
One should think that we could save those steps.
--
Dieser Schrieb stellt eine private Meinungsäußerung des Verfassers im
Sinne der gesetzlich garantierten Meinungsfreiheit dar. Wem das nicht
passt, der wende sich an das Bundesverfassungsgericht. Viel Erfolg!
Key: 0xA0E28D18 FP: 83AE 1136 1E2B 9767 8FB2 7594 4128 1A9E A0E2 8D18 |
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