| Author |
Message |
Andreas Zita
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject:
streaming video not so streaming ? |
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Hi, I have a problem with streaming video on the web.
I have created a video-file using the "WMV9 VCM" codec and embeded it in a
html-file located on my webserver. But I can't get it to _stream_ the video.
It keeps displaying "Connecting..." until the entire video has been
downloaded before it start playing it. (I have set the AutoPlay paramenter
even though I don't think that has anything to do with it since I can't
press the play button anyhow until its completely downloaded.)
Im using Windows Media Player 9.00.00.3250.
I have tried different software for creating the video and also tried
different codecs such as mpeg4, msmpeg4v2, xvid etc but all with the same
results.
And also, when renaming the created video (*.avi) using the WMV9 codec to
*.wmv, the activex-WMP won't play the file at all... how come?
/Ångest Galenskap
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Sebastian Gottschalk
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject:
Re: streaming video not so streaming ? |
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Andreas Zita wrote:
| Quote: | I have created a video-file using the "WMV9 VCM" codec and embeded it in a
html-file located on my webserver. But I can't get it to _stream_ the video.
|
For sure. The AVI container doesn't allow streaming at all.
| Quote: | I have tried different software for creating the video and also tried
different codecs such as mpeg4, msmpeg4v2, xvid etc but all with the same
results.
|
Huh? Normally one extract the xvid encoded content from AVI container and
put it into a ISO mp4 container. And this one is streamable.
| Quote: | And also, when renaming the created video (*.avi) using the WMV9 codec to
*.wmv,
|
This doesn't change anything within the data structure - it will remain
non-streamable.
| Quote: | the activex-WMP won't play the file at all... how come?
|
For sure, ActiveX-WMP doesn't work with any webbrowser. And if you're
misusing IE as webbrowser, as I sadly assume, you should have way more
serious concerns - treath your system as being compromised and take the
consequences.
BTW, if you actually want to use WMV9, why doesn't you use the WMEncoder
outputting to native VC-1/WMV container? There's even a freeware utility
(don't got the name) which allows feeding avisynth scripts as source into
the encoder.
--
Dieser Schrieb stellt eine private Meinungsäußerung des Verfassers im
Sinne der gesetzlich garantierten Meinungsfreiheit dar. Wem das nicht
passt, der wende sich an das Bundesverfassungsgericht. Viel Erfolg!
Key: 0xA0E28D18 FP: 83AE 1136 1E2B 9767 8FB2 7594 4128 1A9E A0E2 8D18 |
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Neil Smith [MVP Digital M
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:30 am Post subject:
Re: streaming video not so streaming ? |
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On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:01:38 +0200, Sebastian Gottschalk
<seppi@seppig.de> wrote:
| Quote: | For sure, ActiveX-WMP doesn't work with any webbrowser. And if you're
misusing IE as webbrowser, as I sadly assume, you should have way more
serious concerns - treath your system as being compromised and take the
consequences.
|
Note of warning : Sebastians viewpoint seems to be that IE is not a
web browser, because of it's inherent security issues. Therefore he
claims that IE supported plugin techniques (activeX) "don't work".
This is a misleading viewpoint, so you should disregard this element
of the discussion, given that IE continues (rather irritatingly) to
hold about 80% of the web browser culture.
His recently posted "correct" embedding code is non-operational in
100% of the top 99.7% of browsers in use - should you consider that as
an option, please consider it is non-W3C compliant XHTML and therefore
not forward compatible.
Cheers - Neil
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Andreas Zita
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:30 am Post subject:
Re: streaming video not so streaming ? |
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Ahhh i see! So only because I choose an mp4-encoder doesn't necessary make
it an mp4-file? The software I'm using only creates avi-files but let me
pick any of the installed encoders I have. I was under the impression that
selecting for instance WMV encoder always created a WMV-file, so that
renaming the created .avi-file to .wmv was okay. Apparently not.
When you say extract, do you mean that it is possible to lift out the
encoded content of my avi-file and without recompressing it or reencoding
it, put it in a streamable "container"? Sound perfect! Any preferred
software for doing this? (avi->mp4)
Is it possible to put _any_ encoded content in an .avi file? Let's say
quicktime video. ?
If I then would choose to encode my video as xvid, would it be any real
difference if I'd put this content in a WMV-container, MP4-container or
Quicktime-container other than that the Quicktime version would open in the
QTP and the others in WMP?
About the choice of format/encoder, what do you recommend? I would prefer if
as many people as possible could view the video without having to install
some extra decoders not installed as default on the os. And it need to be
stream-enabled of course. The videos are of short, mixed content some with
and some without sound.
I'm currently using the encoders in ffdshow but I have no idea which one to
use. For MPEG 4 there are about 12 FourCC's. Any recommendations here?
Thanks!
"Sebastian Gottschalk" <seppi@seppig.de> skrev i meddelandet
news:1oafu30hh5txv.dlg@news.cis.dfn.de...
| Quote: | Andreas Zita wrote:
I have created a video-file using the "WMV9 VCM" codec and embeded it in
a
html-file located on my webserver. But I can't get it to _stream_ the
video.
For sure. The AVI container doesn't allow streaming at all.
I have tried different software for creating the video and also tried
different codecs such as mpeg4, msmpeg4v2, xvid etc but all with the same
results.
Huh? Normally one extract the xvid encoded content from AVI container and
put it into a ISO mp4 container. And this one is streamable.
And also, when renaming the created video (*.avi) using the WMV9 codec to
*.wmv,
This doesn't change anything within the data structure - it will remain
non-streamable.
the activex-WMP won't play the file at all... how come?
For sure, ActiveX-WMP doesn't work with any webbrowser. And if you're
misusing IE as webbrowser, as I sadly assume, you should have way more
serious concerns - treath your system as being compromised and take the
consequences.
BTW, if you actually want to use WMV9, why doesn't you use the WMEncoder
outputting to native VC-1/WMV container? There's even a freeware utility
(don't got the name) which allows feeding avisynth scripts as source into
the encoder.
--
Dieser Schrieb stellt eine private Meinungsäußerung des Verfassers im
Sinne der gesetzlich garantierten Meinungsfreiheit dar. Wem das nicht
passt, der wende sich an das Bundesverfassungsgericht. Viel Erfolg!
Key: 0xA0E28D18 FP: 83AE 1136 1E2B 9767 8FB2 7594 4128 1A9E A0E2 8D18 |
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Sebastian Gottschalk
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:30 am Post subject:
Re: streaming video not so streaming ? |
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Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media] wrote:
| Quote: | For sure, ActiveX-WMP doesn't work with any webbrowser. And if you're
misusing IE as webbrowser, as I sadly assume, you should have way more
serious concerns - treath your system as being compromised and take the
consequences.
Note of warning : Sebastians viewpoint seems to be that IE is not a
web browser, because of it's inherent security issues. Therefore he
claims that IE supported plugin techniques (activeX) "don't work".
|
Nah, IE is not a webbrowser because it's obviously a shell (hint: Type C:\
in the adress bar and tell me if it does a directory listing like in the
web or if it converts to an explorer-like shell). One can misuse a shell as
a webbrowser, jsut like you can misuse telnet or XEmacs as webbrowser -
this doesn't make it a webbrowser.
| Quote: | This is a misleading viewpoint, so you should disregard this element
of the discussion, given that IE continues (rather irritatingly) to
hold about 80% of the web browser culture.
|
Wrong, reasnable statistic are telling just 65%. And you can't just blame
users for not knowing what a real webbrowser is.
| Quote: | His recently posted "correct" embedding code is non-operational in
100% of the top 99.7% of browsers in use
|
Huh? It works on Mozilla, Opera, Conqueror and even IE.
But please denote that IE treats every Object tag as Active-X and apllies
Active-X security settings, even though a plugin doesn't need to have
anything related to Active-X.
--
Dieser Schrieb stellt eine private Meinungsäußerung des Verfassers im
Sinne der gesetzlich garantierten Meinungsfreiheit dar. Wem das nicht
passt, der wende sich an das Bundesverfassungsgericht. Viel Erfolg!
Key: 0xA0E28D18 FP: 83AE 1136 1E2B 9767 8FB2 7594 4128 1A9E A0E2 8D18 |
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Sebastian Gottschalk
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:44 pm Post subject:
Re: streaming video not so streaming ? |
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Andreas Zita wrote:
| Quote: | Ahhh i see! So only because I choose an mp4-encoder doesn't necessary make
it an mp4-file?
|
No. The encoder just generates MPEG4 _content_ that can be wrapped in about
any assumable container. Streaming ability depends both on the content (a
non-streamable content won't stream, but MPEG4 is streamable) and the
container (if you wrap MPEG4 in AVI, it won't stream).
| Quote: | The software I'm using only creates avi-files but let me
pick any of the installed encoders I have. I was under the impression that
selecting for instance WMV encoder always created a WMV-file, so that
renaming the created .avi-file to .wmv was okay. Apparently not.
|
As I already told you: Why should renaming a file change the content? Why
do you assume that WMV and AVI are identicial formats?
| Quote: | When you say extract, do you mean that it is possible to lift out the
encoded content of my avi-file and without recompressing it or reencoding
it, put it in a streamable "container"? Sound perfect! Any preferred
software for doing this? (avi->mp4)
|
mp4creator, or the GUI version MP4UI
| Quote: | Is it possible to put _any_ encoded content in an .avi file? Let's say
quicktime video. ?
|
Depends on whether the DirectShow filter is connection compatible with the
AVI spliiter filter and gets recognized.
| Quote: | If I then would choose to encode my video as xvid, would it be any real
difference if I'd put this content in a WMV-container, MP4-container or
Quicktime-container other than that the Quicktime version would open in the
QTP and the others in WMP?
|
WMP has some problems with non-ISO-Encoder-encoded or non-MSMPEG4v3-encoded
MPEG4 wrapped in WMV. QuickTime only plays MPEG4 in Simple Profile with
some limited options (ISMA0 and parts of ISMA1), but not Advanced Simple
Profile; XVid only generating the latter, therefore it won't work.
MP4-ISO containers works flawless in most cases.
| Quote: | About the choice of format/encoder, what do you recommend? I would prefer if
as many people as possible could view the video without having to install
some extra decoders not installed as default on the os. And it need to be
stream-enabled of course. The videos are of short, mixed content some with
and some without sound.
|
WMV9.
| Quote: | I'm currently using the encoders in ffdshow but I have no idea which one to
use. For MPEG 4 there are about 12 FourCC's. Any recommendations here?
|
Take a look at my MPEG4 encoder/decoder evaluation at
http://www.inf.tu-dresden.de/~s9053014/mp4_comparison.rtf.gz (german only,
but you'll be able to read the comparison table). I think XVid is best both
for compatibility (with Packed Bitstream option disabled!), quality and
playback. If you wrap the content in MP4-ISO container, you don't need to
care for the FourCCs any more.
| Quote: | "Sebastian Gottschalk" <seppi@seppig.de> skrev i meddelandet
news:1oafu30hh5txv.dlg@news.cis.dfn.de...
[full-quote snipped]
|
Woah, boy, get your quoting fixed. I should really use
'dont.put.MessageIDs.in.your.posting.invalid' as FQDN for MessageID
generation.
--
Dieser Schrieb stellt eine private Meinungsäußerung des Verfassers im
Sinne der gesetzlich garantierten Meinungsfreiheit dar. Wem das nicht
passt, der wende sich an das Bundesverfassungsgericht. Viel Erfolg!
Key: 0xA0E28D18 FP: 83AE 1136 1E2B 9767 8FB2 7594 4128 1A9E A0E2 8D18 |
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Neil Smith [MVP Digital M
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:27 pm Post subject:
Re: streaming video not so streaming ? |
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On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 10:25:03 +0200, Sebastian Gottschalk
<seppi@seppig.de> wrote:
| Quote: | Note of warning : Sebastians viewpoint seems to be that IE is not a
web browser, because of it's inherent security issues. Therefore he
claims that IE supported plugin techniques (activeX) "don't work".
Nah, IE is not a webbrowser because it's obviously a shell
|
This thread of the discussion is pointless and is ended.
| Quote: | His recently posted "correct" embedding code is non-operational in
100% of the top 99.7% of browsers in use
Huh? It works on Mozilla, Opera, Conqueror and even IE.
|
No, it doesn't I posted this last week after you posted the code. It
doesn't work in IE, Firefox, 4 versions of Opera (4,6,7,8) or Safari.
At all. It's completely invalid XHTML.
Bye !
Neil |
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Andreas Zita
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject:
Re: streaming video not so streaming ? |
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Thanks for your help!
Although I still can't get it to work:
I have tested MP4UI, created a new mp4-file and imported the xvid-content
from a avi-file. But the created mp4-file won't play at all in neither WMP
or MPC -> "Cannot render file". (I have ffdshow installed)
I also tried creating a WMV9-file with both a WMV-container _and_
WMV-encoded content. When trying to stream this file from my http-server
(using object/embed) the video was _still_ first buffered completely before
being played. I don't get this ... ? (Last time WMP was displaying
"Connecting..." for .avi, now "Buffering..." for .wmv and freezes until the
reaching 100%)
And about the "FQDN for MessageID generation" ... Que pasa? Don't know what
that is .. |
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Sebastian Gottschalk
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject:
Re: streaming video not so streaming ? |
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Andreas Zita wrote:
| Quote: | I have tested MP4UI, created a new mp4-file and imported the xvid-content
from a avi-file. But the created mp4-file won't play at all in neither WMP
or MPC -> "Cannot render file". (I have ffdshow installed)
|
ffdshow doesn't include a mp4 file format splitter. Use mpegable ds
decoder, Nero Digital (installed with Nero or Nero Vision Express demo
version), 3ivX or VLC.
| Quote: | I also tried creating a WMV9-file with both a WMV-container _and_
WMV-encoded content. When trying to stream this file from my http-server
(using object/embed) the video was _still_ first buffered completely before
being played. I don't get this ... ?
|
Did you set the right encoder options for allowing streamable content?
| Quote: | And about the "FQDN for MessageID generation" ... Que pasa? Don't know what
that is ..
|
You quoted my name, my mail adress, the message-id of my article and the
full text. Nothing more than the name is necessary - the message-id is
known through the References header, the email adress can be retrieved from
the refered posting and the quoting: you should just quote what you're
refering too.
Many dudes don't get these simply rules, so it's one typical thing to put a
funny text with .invalid-domain as full qualified domain name into the
message id, therefore exposing such people directly with their posting when
they're quoting the message id.
--
Dieser Schrieb stellt eine private Meinungsäußerung des Verfassers im
Sinne der gesetzlich garantierten Meinungsfreiheit dar. Wem das nicht
passt, der wende sich an das Bundesverfassungsgericht. Viel Erfolg!
Key: 0xA0E28D18 FP: 83AE 1136 1E2B 9767 8FB2 7594 4128 1A9E A0E2 8D18 |
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Andreas Zita
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject:
Re: streaming video not so streaming ? |
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| Quote: | Did you set the right encoder options for allowing streamable content?
|
Can't find any options for this. I'm using Windows Media Encoder with
destination set to "Web server (progressive download)" and video to "screen
capture" ... still won't stream!!! Aarrrarghhhh ... I give up!
Thanks anyway ... |
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